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I sort of miss the days before strict genre segmentation. One cool thing about radio in the 70’s and 80’s was that you might hear The Knack and Donna Summer back to back on the same station. Nowadays, with so many stations, each with narrower demographic targets, it’s easier to immerse yourself in one genre while being completely unaware of what’s running up the other charts.
It’s especially noticeable with rock versus R&B. Alternative rock stations are essentially a rap-free zone. In a way, that’s a return to the way it was in the 50’s, only we aren’t so explicit about the racial aspect of it. (And honestly, if pollyannaishly, I think race is less explicitly a factor than it was back then.)
All Rod Stewart after “Gasoline Alley” suxxors.
Nowadays, with so many stations, each with narrower demographic targets, it’s easier to immerse yourself in one genre while being completely unaware of what’s running up the other charts.
yup. exactly.
i was going to write a follow-up to this that listed the top five of today, probably noting that i didn’t recognize any of it. but when i looked at today’s list, the first thing i noticed was that it’s all tween-rock. there isn’t anything there that would appeal to anyone older than 18. say what you will about “Reunited”, but it’s at least song that adults can like. Miley friggin Cyrus is in the top 5 right now.
say what you will about “Reunited”, but it’s at least song that adults can like. Miley friggin Cyrus is in the top 5 right now.
Let me start by saying that I hold no brief for Miley Cyrus, friggin or not.
But I do seem to remember my own parents making much the same unfavorable comparison between Glen Miller and the “She Loves You” -era Beatles, which they and their cogenerationists liked to call “this yeah-yeah-yeah stuff”.
I myself am too old and set in my ways to enjoy most of the harder rap and hip-hop end of today’s R&B spectrum. You damn’ kids get off my lawn!
noooooo!!!! i’m not old and out of touch!!!! impossible!!
R&B. Didn’t The Rolling Stones used to be an R&B band? When did R&B mean Soul? :)
Rhythm and Blues has meant Soul for as long as I’ve been aware of popular music categorizations, which is since roughly 1984. I never heard the Stones referred to in that category.
It used to be called “race music”, and had its own labels and radio stations.
Then it was R & B, and had a separate Top 10.
Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis brought some flavors of it to white audiences.
When the first few albums from white boys The Rolling Stones covered R & B classics from Willie Dixon, Holland/Dozier/Holland, Chuck Berry, et. al., it was Good. And it was definitely R & B, although it didn’t sell on the R & B charts, which were then featuring Philly and MoTown music.
Didn’t The Rolling Stones used to be an R&B band?
With all due respect to the Stones, who I quite like, no, they were never an R&B band.
R&B was and is black popular dance music. What that actually sounds like in practice has changed quite a bit since, say, 1940, but the definition holds.
White boys tried it on and came up with rock and roll, a lovely thing in its own right, but R&B, like the Dude, abides.
the Stones are in the R&B section of Amazon UK. but not in Amazon US.
and certainly they have played a lot of songs from indisputable R&B artists, and played them pretty straight too (even as late as 78, they put out a very straight version of the Temptation’s “(Just My) Imagination”). maybe they thought of themselves as an old-school R&B band. .. and in fact a few on-line bios say that Brian Jones was trying to start an R&B band when he placed the ad the Richards and Jagger answered.
Many of the british bands of the stone’s generation took their inspiration from american blues and r&b, but they made out of it was rock and roll.
Seriously, listen to, frex, the stones’ “Just My Imagination” vs the Temps. Or compare the Yardbirds “Can’t Judge A Book By Looking At The Cover” with Bo Diddley’s version.
The way the time feel sits, the way vocals and instrumental parts are phrased, the balance of the instruments in the band, etc etc etc. It’s same chords, same melody, same words, but it’s not the same music.
You can hear R&B repertoire at a Pops concert, but it ain’t R&B. To me, the distance between a band like the Stones and real R&B is about the same as between the Pops and R&B, just in another direction.
Not saying you have to be black and American to play R&B, just saying what the Stones play, excellent as it is, is not R&B.
To some degree, of course, this is a “you say tomato, I say tomahto” thing, but I think if you A/B the actual recordings you’ll hear really consistent differences. The Stones playing “Just My Imagination” have way, way more in common musically with any British band of their generation that is explicitly a rock band than with any American R&B band of any generation.
The thing I usually say with other musicians to explain the difference is “the brothers don’t rush”. There’s more to it than that, of course, but that gets at the gist of it.
russell seems to know what he’s talking about. i will defer.
hmmm, re-reading the thread I think I may be stepping on this a little too hard.
What I think is true is that there’s a difference between what brits have in mind when they say “R&B” vs what Americans do. This is especially true when you’re talking about the period when the Stones started out.
The Who, frex, considered themselves an R&B band (a very special “maximum” R&B band) but there’s almost nothing an American would hear as R&B in their music.
Two nations divided by a common language.
What Americans who are used to American black R&B hear when they listen to the Stones playing “Just My Imagination” is a rock band playing an R&B cover.
That’s probably enough musical big-footing from me for one day. Probably a couple of weeks’ worth, actually.
even Americans have had differing opinions on what “R&B” is and what it isn’t. Elvis had 23 Top 20 R&B singles before 1964. the Stones formed in 62, so they were probably using that ancient definition too.
I hear what you’re saying cleek but listen to Elvis circa 1962 vs the Stones circa 1962. Not just Elvis himself, but the sound of the whole band.
Then compare Elvis ca 1962 with, frex, Sam Cooke, or Ike Turner, or anything from Stax, anything from early Motown.
I understand how the labeling works, and how it differs here and in the UK, but what I’m talking about is what the music actually sounds like.
When I listen to the Stones, from any period in their career, I don’t hear R&B. Maybe I hear some blues, but mostly I hear rock and roll.
Not just any rock and roll, but probably the best rock of their generation. So I’m not looking to take anything away from them.
It just ain’t rhythm and blues. It’s something else.